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this is Lou Elizondo and you are

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hi everyone and welcome back to that UFO

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podcast my name is Andy and I am honored

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delighted and Overjoyed to be joined by

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one of the world's foremost names in the

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study of UFOs a gentleman with a

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master's degree in astrophysics a PhD in

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artificial intelligence an active

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investor in high technology and author

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of some of the best books on the UFO

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phenomenon available and today here to

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look at among many things the new

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edition of Trinity the best kept secret

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he a book he co-authored with Paola

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Harris Mr Jacques Valley Jacques welcome

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to the podcast

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thank you very much for having me I look

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forward to it yeah listen let's get

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straight into it so just a reminder

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folks in May 2021 I interviewed Paola

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Harris on the book originally so for the

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detailed Story please check that one out

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in the archive having Jack on we're

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going to look at the new information

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included in the book however Jack would

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you please Begin by telling the

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listeners who may not be familiar with

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the Trinity case a little bit about it

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but also what's brought about a second

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um you're talking about the Trinity case

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right yeah yes I I was invited into the

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case by Paula Harris

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who had already done about three years

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of of work she was one of the first

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people who uh became aware that the the

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witnesses who by then were in their late

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60s and early 70s were for the first

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time we're talking about what they had

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seen all the way back in 1945

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she was number one she was amazed that

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the secret had been kept you know so

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long because you know many witnesses

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want to be on TV or they want to tell

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their story or they just feel a need to

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to tell their story even if it's not to

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the media but to someone like me or or

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to a scientist or to an investigator so

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that was amazing and the other thing

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that was amazing was all the complexity

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of the case as she got into it and a

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couple of other people had interviewed

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at least one of the one of the witnesses

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but there was also a scientific aspect

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involved and she invited me into the

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case to look at that actually there were

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two one was the object itself which had

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very

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interesting characteristics that had

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never been seen before and it wasn't a

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flying saucer a member of the term

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flying software was introduced in 1947

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two years later you know

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um by by Kenneth Arnold uh there was no

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U.S Air Force of course there were

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airplanes but there were Army Air Frost

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the pilots were in army uniforms and and

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uh so all the the things that we imagine

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going on around the UFO case were not

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present you know there was the the

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Witnesses were two children

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uh who were taking care of their

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father's Ranch of course in those years

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you know all the adults were uh unless

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they were essential for the economy they

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were at War still they were still you

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know in being repatriated this was just

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the the end of the war in Europe but the

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war in the Pacific was still going on

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so there is a very uh

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powerful

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you know aspect of this case which has

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to do with modern history

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the the other aspect is the the object

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itself I mean the object itself didn't

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resemble anything that the witnesses had

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seen before it was a large oval you know

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they called it an avocado of course

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where New Mexico people speak

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indifferently Spanish or English

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um but they came from a a

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Spanish-speaking family so they they

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call it an avocado it's the size of two

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trucks it's heavy uh it has hit a

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communication Tower and then plowed the

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boulevard down the hill apparently under

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power and those are the things that uh

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Paula and I wanted to investigate and

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and really get more of a of an

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understanding of what that entire

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situation was the first witness was not

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the kids the first witness was a very

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experienced longer pilot

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their brother

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b-r-o-t-h-y

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who was somewhat older than most of the

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pilots in the Army are fals he he joined

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as what they called an old man uh if you

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were over 40 for the Army you were

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recruited as an old man category and I

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don't think of 40 being old but

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apparently the Army did in those days

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because many of the recruits were in

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their you know in in their 20s and early

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30s he's coming in for a landing with a

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bomber

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uh coming in for landing at Alamogordo

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which is the air base inside White Sands

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White Sands is very large area where the

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first atom bulb had been tested

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in quotes

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um a few weeks before

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the tower at Alamogordo asked him to

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look at the communication tower that is

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on that ranch on the the father's land

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you know of the two kids and

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he circles that Tower and sees that the

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tower has been bent and the tower is no

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longer communicating it's not a military

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Tower it's right outside about 20 miles

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outside the

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White Sands territory where the bomb had

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been exploded but it controls the uh

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both civilian and Military airplanes

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around the the classified area

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which is still classified at that point

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the the pilot reports that the tower is

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bent has lost communication and he then

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sees some smoke reports that there is an

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oval object in the bushes

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um in the the cactus and you know it's

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very sparse

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vegetation there and uh things that the

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object is on fire in fact the object is

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not on fire but the the vegetation is

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and uh and then they can report to two

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kids he says that he sees two little

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kids one horseback next to the area

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where the object ends quote crashed

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although parallel and I have become

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convinced that it was a controlled crash

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the uh based on the descriptions of the

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object that we get from the two kids so

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it's a very unusual case because we can

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place the three Witnesses at the site at

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the time when the object just crashed

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um we we have their testimony of all

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three of them

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and then we have the the fact that the

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kids are going to stay there for the

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next 10 days

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watching their recovery

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and

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by the time I got involved uh with with

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and caught up with with Fowler

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um one of the witnesses Mr Becker had

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died but the other one was still very

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much alive Mr Padilla Jose

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in fact he's a few years older than I am

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and we've become friends as a result of

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you know my frequent trips there to

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continue the investigation

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the the case is extraordinary because

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the again we can place the witnesses at

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the site they were the First Responders

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of course they thought it had to do with

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the war they had no no concept of you

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know UFOs the term UFO isn't invented

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yet it's going to be invented by the U.S

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Air Force

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after 1947 President Truman is going to

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create the Air Force to write it into

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existence as separate from the Army two

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years later the CIA doesn't exist the

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CIA is going to be created into

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existence Again by President Truman two

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years later so we're we're still most

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able you know able-bodied Americans are

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still in uniform they are scattered

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between Europe and Japan the war in

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Europe is over

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um Hitler has died

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uh Stalin is sweeping is reorganizing

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the right Army uh the Red Army I mean

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there's nothing left in Germany the the

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Red Army is sweeping through the

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Manchuria and uh China pushing the

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Japanese out of China they had invaded

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you know China and then getting ready to

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attack Japan from the north Japan

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um is also going to be attacked by the

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Navy

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I've read all the books that have come

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out in the last few years you know many

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of the documents were

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um

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not not exactly classified but they were

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not available to Scholars until just a

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few years ago it took 50 years to

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assemble and document all the all the

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papers from different nations a lot of

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it is here at Stanford I mean not not

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here because I'm in parisman uh it's all

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over in Palo Alto and

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the historians had time to study it and

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to publish a number of books that I read

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in preparation for for writing Trinity I

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was stumped when I read

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and when I realized uh what had happened

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and I realized also why

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I didn't know after so many years of

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studying UFOs I had never heard of that

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case the case really wasn't in the

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literature except in a couple of

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footnotes uh one book has a short

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chapter about it but essentially it had

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not been researched at the site

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and the reason we didn't know about it

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is that the object was recovered by the

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Manhattan Project

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by the Army was you know managing that

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the Manhattan Project

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and

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after that it would be covered by the

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atomic secrets and not by the the normal

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Pentagon secrets it was covered under

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the nuclear sequence and we know that

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because there is a uh we found a uh a a

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note from another unrelated

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investigation in in the 50s there were a

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number of UFOs seen over Washington that

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actually went over the Forbidden space

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over the Pentagon and the White House

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um Fighters were sent after them of

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course and one fighter was authorized to

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shoot

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shot at a UFO destroyed part of it the

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part that fell down was recovered and

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later the United States shared the part

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of that material and we can talk about

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materials later if if you want to but uh

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they had you know first shot at that

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material and they shared it with the

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Canadians Canadians had a UFO project

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and they told the Canadians that in the

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U.S this was classified higher than the

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nuclear bomb

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so we know that from you know official

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channels not from the witnesses

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themselves

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so the secret was kept and

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um it's still kept we don't know where

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the object met however

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we have the witnesses who are there uh

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day after day after day took 10 days

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to recover this object and to get it on

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the truck and to to clean up the the

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site as best as they could and to take

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everything away the kids were watching

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every day and in in the book you know in

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in Trinity we have reconstructed what

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happened day after day of today

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including the the weather conditions and

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everything else so we we know a lot

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about how that object was recovered and

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we have a pretty good idea of where it

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went

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thank you very much for that that lovely

278
00:14:53,449 --> 00:14:50,160
summary of the event I'd love to know

279
00:14:56,030 --> 00:14:53,459
long Exposition I apologize but you know

280
00:14:58,850 --> 00:14:56,040
there were all these factors combining

281
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:58,860
together in that case no there's so much

282
00:15:04,730 --> 00:15:01,199
to discuss and I'd love to know firstly

283
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:04,740
one month prior to this this crash or

284
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:07,199
controlled crash there was an atomic

285
00:15:14,090 --> 00:15:11,279
test 20 miles away from the site do you

286
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:14,100
think that Atomic test in any way

287
00:15:19,610 --> 00:15:16,560
affected the environment that caused the

288
00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:19,620
crash or do you think it was the

289
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:22,560
potentially a way we we alerted

290
00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:24,560
something else to what we were doing

291
00:15:31,389 --> 00:15:28,980
well you know I I can always I can only

292
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:31,399
speculate you know about

293
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:33,920
what happened

294
00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:37,680
the it was very clear that that object

295
00:15:44,329 --> 00:15:40,800
was not human you know

296
00:15:46,990 --> 00:15:44,339
um it was okay it's not not human from

297
00:15:50,269 --> 00:15:47,000
you know the United States or

298
00:15:53,090 --> 00:15:50,279
Russia or Germany that might have been

299
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:53,100
inspiring on White Sands on the atomic

300
00:15:55,490 --> 00:15:54,540
Center

301
00:15:59,170 --> 00:15:55,500
um

302
00:16:04,009 --> 00:16:01,790
why would it crash I mean that's a

303
00:16:06,829 --> 00:16:04,019
question that people have you know very

304
00:16:08,569 --> 00:16:06,839
often they say okay you know we can

305
00:16:11,449 --> 00:16:08,579
believe that these objects are real

306
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:11,459
these UFOs are there but you're telling

307
00:16:15,769 --> 00:16:14,160
us about these accidents I mean if you

308
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:15,779
came from the other end of the universe

309
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:18,720
why would you crash on somebody's Ranch

310
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:22,079
no you would Master enough of them the

311
00:16:25,069 --> 00:16:24,000
physical characteristics that you could

312
00:16:28,730 --> 00:16:25,079
land there

313
00:16:31,610 --> 00:16:28,740
well what if it's a gift

314
00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:31,620
what if it's a signal

315
00:16:38,389 --> 00:16:35,940
after all history has just changed

316
00:16:42,129 --> 00:16:38,399
for the first time

317
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:42,139
um you know mankind has demonstrated

318
00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:46,560
Mastery of nuclear processes many

319
00:16:53,230 --> 00:16:48,300
scientists did not believe that you

320
00:16:56,509 --> 00:16:53,240
could make an atom mom here you know uh

321
00:16:59,170 --> 00:16:56,519
the uh the scientists were gathered

322
00:17:02,629 --> 00:16:59,180
there were the elite of

323
00:17:06,490 --> 00:17:02,639
science across around the world you know

324
00:17:11,630 --> 00:17:06,500
there were Germans they were they were

325
00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:11,640
they were Italians like Fermi and Rico

326
00:17:16,429 --> 00:17:14,040
Fermi they were Americans they were

327
00:17:20,090 --> 00:17:16,439
poles there were people from all over

328
00:17:22,669 --> 00:17:20,100
the world who had fled the Nazi and uh

329
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:22,679
there were a couple of Nobel prizes and

330
00:17:30,650 --> 00:17:28,319
and uh the they demonstrated you know

331
00:17:33,409 --> 00:17:30,660
the the nuclear power

332
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:33,419
contrary to what many people think the

333
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:38,640
the Army did not exactly embrace the

334
00:17:44,650 --> 00:17:41,760
idea of using a trombone

335
00:17:48,169 --> 00:17:44,660
um generalizing our General Sherman

336
00:17:51,230 --> 00:17:48,179
separately went to see went to the White

337
00:17:54,830 --> 00:17:51,240
House to see the president

338
00:17:57,010 --> 00:17:54,840
and told him that the Army should not

339
00:17:59,630 --> 00:17:57,020
use the bomb

340
00:18:01,970 --> 00:17:59,640
contrary to you know people think well

341
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:01,980
you know the Army the military wanted

342
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:05,039
you know more more power more bombs more

343
00:18:10,909 --> 00:18:08,400
explosions and so on and that's why they

344
00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:10,919
they were crazy enough to use this

345
00:18:18,169 --> 00:18:16,080
nuclear weapon the Army thought that if

346
00:18:21,169 --> 00:18:18,179
the bomb was used

347
00:18:22,190 --> 00:18:21,179
the nature of war was going to change

348
00:18:26,289 --> 00:18:22,200
forever

349
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:26,299
and that the wars conflicts would become

350
00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:30,480
unmanageable and that the you know I can

351
00:18:36,409 --> 00:18:32,760
put that in the context of what happens

352
00:18:40,850 --> 00:18:36,419
now in Ukraine I mean are we going to

353
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:40,860
see this you know for all that time the

354
00:18:47,870 --> 00:18:43,440
atom bomb has never been used it has

355
00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:47,880
been refined has been uh reshaped it has

356
00:18:54,169 --> 00:18:51,240
been experimented with you know by by

357
00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:54,179
the US by Russia by France by other

358
00:18:59,690 --> 00:18:56,880
countries but it has never been used in

359
00:19:02,350 --> 00:18:59,700
Conflict even though the Temptation was

360
00:19:07,490 --> 00:19:02,360
probably very very high

361
00:19:09,950 --> 00:19:07,500
then so we're back at a time where you

362
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:09,960
know for when they went I've learned a

363
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:13,200
lot of history you know I I was born in

364
00:19:19,789 --> 00:19:16,559
France when France was essentially you

365
00:19:23,150 --> 00:19:19,799
know invaded by the Germans so the first

366
00:19:26,450 --> 00:19:23,160
five years of my life I was in occupied

367
00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:26,460
friends uh I remember the conditions

368
00:19:32,090 --> 00:19:28,860
there I remember what the war was like

369
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:32,100
because our town was a key strategic

370
00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:34,559
point and it was attacked you know

371
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:38,100
repeatedly and that I I can place myself

372
00:19:44,330 --> 00:19:41,760
in the conditions where people were in

373
00:19:46,370 --> 00:19:44,340
the United States in 1945

374
00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:46,380
the

375
00:19:54,830 --> 00:19:50,700
President Truman emerges from this with

376
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:54,840
an extraordinary character I mean he had

377
00:19:59,450 --> 00:19:57,840
to make the decision himself the user

378
00:20:03,350 --> 00:19:59,460
bomb

379
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:03,360
um the the Pentagon had ordered

380
00:20:06,590 --> 00:20:04,799
500

381
00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:06,600
000 purple hearts

382
00:20:13,490 --> 00:20:09,960
in anticipation of the battle or in

383
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:13,500
Japan that was coming up where the the

384
00:20:18,529 --> 00:20:16,080
Russians would invade from the north and

385
00:20:22,370 --> 00:20:18,539
we would Supply them with the American

386
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:22,380
Fleet and the American Air Force the the

387
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:26,640
Navy had 100 aircraft carriers in the

388
00:20:30,890 --> 00:20:28,080
Pacific

389
00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:30,900
many of them were just or old ships

390
00:20:36,169 --> 00:20:33,660
whether that had been flattened so that

391
00:20:39,289 --> 00:20:36,179
they could put airplanes you know but

392
00:20:43,070 --> 00:20:39,299
the the force was extraordinary and

393
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,080
Japan had amassed a million men in the

394
00:20:47,090 --> 00:20:45,360
north of Japan behind huge

395
00:20:49,490 --> 00:20:47,100
fortifications

396
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:49,500
uh President Truman

397
00:20:57,770 --> 00:20:54,179
felt that he could not allow that many

398
00:21:01,490 --> 00:20:57,780
Young Americans to die and he allowed

399
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:01,500
the two bombs to be used that Hiroshima

400
00:21:06,650 --> 00:21:03,120
and nagasek

401
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:06,660
so that's the context now as you know

402
00:21:13,789 --> 00:21:09,840
your question is what was that

403
00:21:15,710 --> 00:21:13,799
UFO doing crashing on that ranch you

404
00:21:18,529 --> 00:21:15,720
know 20 miles from the place where the

405
00:21:19,610 --> 00:21:18,539
atom bomb had enough in the Forbidden

406
00:21:21,890 --> 00:21:19,620
area

407
00:21:24,529 --> 00:21:21,900
now nobody saw it coming I mean it

408
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:24,539
wasn't on radar as far as we know it

409
00:21:30,770 --> 00:21:28,080
came out of nowhere hit that Tower and

410
00:21:33,409 --> 00:21:30,780
crashed on that ranch where it was

411
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:33,419
available for the Army to come and

412
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:35,840
retrieve it

413
00:21:41,810 --> 00:21:39,360
is that a signal I I don't know I mean

414
00:21:47,409 --> 00:21:41,820
it's I'm strongly

415
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:47,419
tempted to to say somebody else

416
00:21:53,810 --> 00:21:51,840
was after all when a planet has a

417
00:21:56,029 --> 00:21:53,820
civilization on it then that

418
00:21:58,730 --> 00:21:56,039
Civilization develops

419
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,740
the atom bomb

420
00:22:03,890 --> 00:22:00,960
um you know there if there are other

421
00:22:08,210 --> 00:22:03,900
forms of life around

422
00:22:12,049 --> 00:22:08,220
um that might warrant an intervention

423
00:22:14,330 --> 00:22:12,059
an intervention where there was a

424
00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:14,340
demonstration that there was something

425
00:22:18,770 --> 00:22:16,260
even more powerful

426
00:22:21,409 --> 00:22:18,780
than the atom bomb because the kids are

427
00:22:23,450 --> 00:22:21,419
going to be watching and again with

428
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:23,460
reconstructed Powerline what happened

429
00:22:30,110 --> 00:22:27,120
day of today there is a point where

430
00:22:33,289 --> 00:22:30,120
the the kids can get close to the object

431
00:22:36,110 --> 00:22:33,299
the the beings that were seen inside the

432
00:22:38,810 --> 00:22:36,120
object have been taken away or they have

433
00:22:41,930 --> 00:22:38,820
moved away at night

434
00:22:44,810 --> 00:22:41,940
we don't know what happened to them but

435
00:22:48,909 --> 00:22:44,820
the object is there and it's open the

436
00:22:51,070 --> 00:22:48,919
father of the kids goes there with a uh

437
00:22:54,370 --> 00:22:51,080
a New Mexico

438
00:22:57,169 --> 00:22:54,380
policeman State Police

439
00:23:00,049 --> 00:22:57,179
they tell the kids not never to talk

440
00:23:02,649 --> 00:23:00,059
about this they say this is not for our

441
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:02,659
family this is not for you to talk about

442
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:06,480
this is for the Army and this is Father

443
00:23:12,529 --> 00:23:09,840
Pentagon you don't talk about that to

444
00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:12,539
your friends and they will follow that

445
00:23:16,909 --> 00:23:14,700
for the rest of their life

446
00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:16,919
uh you know Roswell is going to happen

447
00:23:21,529 --> 00:23:19,080
two years later they don't come up at

448
00:23:24,190 --> 00:23:21,539
the time of Roswell to say look look

449
00:23:27,649 --> 00:23:24,200
well you know we saw something too they

450
00:23:30,409 --> 00:23:27,659
uh the case remained secret on the side

451
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:30,419
of the kids and it remained secret on

452
00:23:37,070 --> 00:23:33,120
the side of project Manhattan that

453
00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:37,080
morphed into the atomic energy condition

454
00:23:44,210 --> 00:23:39,679
we also know that because

455
00:23:46,750 --> 00:23:44,220
Remy Baka is going to grow up to be a

456
00:23:50,270 --> 00:23:46,760
businessman in the state of Washington

457
00:23:53,029 --> 00:23:50,280
and he's going to work on the political

458
00:23:55,850 --> 00:23:53,039
side with Dixie Lee Ray governor of

459
00:23:57,890 --> 00:23:55,860
Washington dictionary was a very smart

460
00:24:00,830 --> 00:23:57,900
woman she was a physicist

461
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:00,840
she was she ran for governor of

462
00:24:05,810 --> 00:24:03,360
Washington was elected as governor of

463
00:24:08,570 --> 00:24:05,820
Washington and then later was director

464
00:24:10,909 --> 00:24:08,580
of the atomic energy Commission which is

465
00:24:13,310 --> 00:24:10,919
now has morphed into the department of

466
00:24:17,230 --> 00:24:13,320
energy which has its own clearances

467
00:24:21,950 --> 00:24:17,240
about nuclear matters

468
00:24:25,549 --> 00:24:21,960
during her re-election she talks with

469
00:24:28,190 --> 00:24:25,559
Remy Baka who is going to energize the

470
00:24:32,510 --> 00:24:28,200
the Spanish-speaking community in

471
00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:32,520
Washington to vote for her and the so

472
00:24:38,750 --> 00:24:34,980
they are working together on the on the

473
00:24:42,409 --> 00:24:38,760
campaign to get her elected governor and

474
00:24:46,190 --> 00:24:42,419
she knows what he has seen as a kid she

475
00:24:48,830 --> 00:24:46,200
goes to a safe and shows him the report

476
00:24:52,370 --> 00:24:48,840
of course he's he's not allowed to keep

477
00:24:55,130 --> 00:24:52,380
it or to read it but she wants him to

478
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:55,140
know that there is a report about the

479
00:24:59,090 --> 00:24:58,320
object that was recovered at the at the

480
00:25:02,810 --> 00:24:59,100
ranch

481
00:25:07,070 --> 00:25:02,820
and that that object that he that he saw

482
00:25:10,190 --> 00:25:07,080
so you know I again I you know I I try

483
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:10,200
to think as a scientist and not jump to

484
00:25:15,169 --> 00:25:13,200
conclusions or make up hypotheses

485
00:25:17,149 --> 00:25:15,179
because you can spend the rest of your

486
00:25:19,970 --> 00:25:17,159
life making up highball disease I mean

487
00:25:23,029 --> 00:25:19,980
you know it's a it's a big universe out

488
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:23,039
there uh with billions and billions of

489
00:25:30,890 --> 00:25:27,600
stars as uh as Carl Sagan said so uh

490
00:25:33,850 --> 00:25:30,900
it's not speculation is useless I mean

491
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:33,860
you have to deal with the fact

492
00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:38,400
the fact is that that thing crash landed

493
00:25:43,130 --> 00:25:40,620
under power

494
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:43,140
the kids are going to look at it very

495
00:25:49,789 --> 00:25:47,039
carefully Mr Padilla is going to go

496
00:25:51,890 --> 00:25:49,799
inside gave me a very good description

497
00:25:54,649 --> 00:25:51,900
and I wanted the dimensions and

498
00:25:56,570 --> 00:25:54,659
everything else I wanted to know if the

499
00:25:59,330 --> 00:25:56,580
floor was flat I wanted to know

500
00:26:01,490 --> 00:25:59,340
something about the materials I mean the

501
00:26:04,370 --> 00:26:01,500
things that you know a good investigator

502
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:04,380
would want to know and

503
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:08,000
um the space for an engine was

504
00:26:14,810 --> 00:26:11,760
underneath the the egg-shaped object the

505
00:26:18,649 --> 00:26:14,820
avocado which was the size of two trucks

506
00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:18,659
two fairly large strikes 15 feet high

507
00:26:25,549 --> 00:26:21,900
and the under the floor they would have

508
00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:25,559
been two and a half feet of space over

509
00:26:31,789 --> 00:26:27,900
maybe five feet long

510
00:26:36,289 --> 00:26:31,799
that space is closed and this is the

511
00:26:38,810 --> 00:26:36,299
bottom of the of the craft that has you

512
00:26:41,930 --> 00:26:38,820
know pushed the the dirt all the way

513
00:26:45,049 --> 00:26:41,940
down the hill okay it's it's scratched

514
00:26:48,049 --> 00:26:45,059
but it's not broken there is no opening

515
00:26:51,230 --> 00:26:48,059
there there is no propeller and there is

516
00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:51,240
no jet and there is nothing to see

517
00:26:57,169 --> 00:26:54,179
that's where a propulsion system would

518
00:27:00,230 --> 00:26:57,179
be what kind of a protection system can

519
00:27:03,769 --> 00:27:00,240
we think of that would fit in that space

520
00:27:05,810 --> 00:27:03,779
and would would take you you know

521
00:27:08,269 --> 00:27:05,820
potentially would take you to outer

522
00:27:12,049 --> 00:27:08,279
space I mean at this point we have no

523
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:12,059
idea of course you know the when it was

524
00:27:18,169 --> 00:27:15,600
taken to Los Alamos I I assumed that

525
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:18,179
scientists have looked at it it's not

526
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:21,360
obvious to me that we have

527
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:24,960
made any progress in finding the key

528
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:28,320
because when you know last week I was

529
00:27:35,570 --> 00:27:31,919
watching our most modern rocket going up

530
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:35,580
and it was going up with essentially you

531
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:39,600
know classic propellant so we certainly

532
00:27:44,269 --> 00:27:42,240
don't have the Mastery of anything

533
00:27:46,430 --> 00:27:44,279
approaching

534
00:27:50,049 --> 00:27:46,440
um anti-gravity that could take us into

535
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:50,059
space we may be able to use forms of

536
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:53,760
manipulated gravity once we're in in

537
00:27:59,810 --> 00:27:56,640
orbit you know far from the earth where

538
00:28:01,850 --> 00:27:59,820
a small push could get you to accelerate

539
00:28:04,490 --> 00:28:01,860
and so I mean you know I've looked at

540
00:28:06,529 --> 00:28:04,500
actually I've looked at proposals for

541
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,539
companies that proposed to do that and

542
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:09,360
they can demonstrate something along

543
00:28:14,269 --> 00:28:11,760
those lines Maybe

544
00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:14,279
and I've I've looked at those business

545
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:17,700
plans as an intern potential investor

546
00:28:22,970 --> 00:28:21,360
but there is nothing like you know what

547
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:22,980
we know the

548
00:28:29,630 --> 00:28:26,960
the UFOs are doing

549
00:28:32,090 --> 00:28:29,640
you've beautifully captured a very

550
00:28:34,610 --> 00:28:32,100
horrific time in human history talking

551
00:28:38,269 --> 00:28:34,620
about the the 40s through to the the war

552
00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:38,279
the end of the war the the bombing of

553
00:28:42,909 --> 00:28:40,500
Hiroshima and Nagasaki you've mentioned

554
00:28:45,470 --> 00:28:42,919
was the the only two times in history

555
00:28:48,649 --> 00:28:45,480
Atomic weapons have been used in the act

556
00:28:51,890 --> 00:28:48,659
of warfare however and the decades

557
00:28:54,350 --> 00:28:51,900
preceding those events the the testing

558
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:54,360
of atomic weapons has happened over and

559
00:28:59,230 --> 00:28:56,159
over and over again

560
00:29:02,450 --> 00:28:59,240
it would seem if if these were warnings

561
00:29:04,850 --> 00:29:02,460
we've not listened to the warnings as a

562
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:04,860
species and continued to stockpile the

563
00:29:10,250 --> 00:29:08,159
weapons and as of now we luckily thank

564
00:29:11,810 --> 00:29:10,260
God haven't used them in a Warfare

565
00:29:12,890 --> 00:29:11,820
setting and hopefully that never happens

566
00:29:15,529 --> 00:29:12,900
but

567
00:29:18,049 --> 00:29:15,539
how do you see the phenomenon's

568
00:29:20,750 --> 00:29:18,059
continued presence through the decades

569
00:29:22,850 --> 00:29:20,760
are we still being observed because of

570
00:29:25,010 --> 00:29:22,860
this continued stockpiling and testing

571
00:29:28,570 --> 00:29:25,020
of weapons above ground under the water

572
00:29:31,970 --> 00:29:28,580
and and underground as well

573
00:29:35,389 --> 00:29:31,980
it's tempting to

574
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:35,399
uh specially that there there is another

575
00:29:42,110 --> 00:29:37,760
form of life that's

576
00:29:44,330 --> 00:29:42,120
Watching Over Us uh hopefully they are

577
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:44,340
friendly

578
00:29:53,630 --> 00:29:48,720
um so far most of the encounters that I

579
00:29:57,789 --> 00:29:53,640
know about have have been

580
00:30:00,049 --> 00:29:57,799
um have not taken the form of an attack

581
00:30:03,230 --> 00:30:00,059
except for

582
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:03,240
a group of cases where the Witnesses

583
00:30:08,510 --> 00:30:04,559
were harmed

584
00:30:11,810 --> 00:30:08,520
either by proximity to an object or in

585
00:30:15,889 --> 00:30:11,820
some cases Direct Energy from the object

586
00:30:17,930 --> 00:30:15,899
you know affecting them okay and I'm

587
00:30:21,470 --> 00:30:17,940
familiar with that because it's part of

588
00:30:24,250 --> 00:30:21,480
the the databases that we've built

589
00:30:38,690 --> 00:30:24,260
the

590
00:30:44,029 --> 00:30:38,700
of an atomic bomb and that it worked and

591
00:30:48,830 --> 00:30:44,039
that uh and courage then the the Army to

592
00:30:53,710 --> 00:30:48,840
uh go on and drop two bombs on Japan

593
00:30:58,010 --> 00:30:53,720
well that's you know that's that's true

594
00:31:01,130 --> 00:30:58,020
but you cannot really test it at all you

595
00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:01,140
know either it works or it doesn't

596
00:31:07,389 --> 00:31:06,000
um and when uh this was a full-scale

597
00:31:11,210 --> 00:31:07,399
plutonia

598
00:31:14,510 --> 00:31:11,220
it was equivalent in power to the one

599
00:31:15,649 --> 00:31:14,520
that essentially vaporized the gazaki

600
00:31:20,830 --> 00:31:15,659
okay

601
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:20,840
uh a lot of the plutonium was not burned

602
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:24,240
uh or part of the explosion and it fell

603
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:28,559
on the entire area and when you know we

604
00:31:33,529 --> 00:31:30,480
found new Witnesses when we talked to

605
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:33,539
them about what happened to their family

606
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:36,000
at that point and what they what they

607
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:39,120
saw in terms of you know residue or

608
00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:43,440
objects or evidence of of the the

609
00:31:48,769 --> 00:31:46,260
landing of the craft the first thing

610
00:31:52,010 --> 00:31:48,779
they do is to tell us about the

611
00:31:55,669 --> 00:31:52,020
devastation in New Mexico

612
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:55,679
and with you know they pull out pictures

613
00:32:02,149 --> 00:31:58,080
of the kids who died when they were 18

614
00:32:06,529 --> 00:32:02,159
of radiation injuries or of radiation

615
00:32:08,750 --> 00:32:06,539
poisoning they they tell us why

616
00:32:11,510 --> 00:32:08,760
you know we I think we understand why

617
00:32:14,269 --> 00:32:11,520
there was a secret until they blew up

618
00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:14,279
the bomb and could verify it worked and

619
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:16,980
reconfirmed me who was there did a quick

620
00:32:22,610 --> 00:32:19,440
calculation and saw that the explosion

621
00:32:25,669 --> 00:32:22,620
was four times more powerful than they

622
00:32:28,510 --> 00:32:25,679
had calculated which in atomic physics

623
00:32:31,730 --> 00:32:28,520
isn't bad you know

624
00:32:35,210 --> 00:32:31,740
in in terms of solving the equations but

625
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:35,220
the fact is it was a huge explosion and

626
00:32:40,730 --> 00:32:37,679
the wind then took the residue of the

627
00:32:43,789 --> 00:32:40,740
plutonium and the radioactive Cloud went

628
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:43,799
over the area where the kids and their

629
00:32:51,889 --> 00:32:46,559
family were in that ranch

630
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:51,899
now a month later this thing lands there

631
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,000
it's practically intact

632
00:33:00,409 --> 00:32:58,559
you know you're tempted to think that

633
00:33:03,230 --> 00:33:00,419
this was a gift

634
00:33:05,570 --> 00:33:03,240
that this was an demonstration you think

635
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:05,580
your smart you know you were you

636
00:33:11,090 --> 00:33:09,120
mastered atomic energy on Earth for the

637
00:33:13,909 --> 00:33:11,100
first time in

638
00:33:17,870 --> 00:33:13,919
you know hundreds of thousands of years

639
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:17,880
you've gotten to that point now

640
00:33:25,490 --> 00:33:21,840
look at this you know so it's tempting

641
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:25,500
to to think of it in those terms however

642
00:33:30,409 --> 00:33:28,799
you know in the last 40 years

643
00:33:33,950 --> 00:33:30,419
with

644
00:33:35,149 --> 00:33:33,960
gone to the edge of nuclear conflict

645
00:33:38,210 --> 00:33:35,159
three times

646
00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:38,220
by mostly by accident we don't know

647
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:40,260
about the Russian side but we know that

648
00:33:45,169 --> 00:33:42,720
we did I mean we know that there were

649
00:33:48,529 --> 00:33:45,179
there was one time when the Strategic

650
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:50,570
um so

651
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:53,519
um with with instructions I mean on the

652
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:56,880
way to bombing Russia

653
00:34:07,450 --> 00:34:01,200
uh based on false signals and false

654
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:07,460
false uh computer programs that uh

655
00:34:11,570 --> 00:34:10,800
had thought that they had detected an

656
00:34:15,070 --> 00:34:11,580
attack

657
00:34:16,690 --> 00:34:15,080
so so much for artificial intelligence

658
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:16,700
so

659
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:23,280
intervene you know there was no

660
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:26,639
intervention to stop the B-52s

661
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:30,960
so uh what does that mean well it means

662
00:34:36,169 --> 00:34:34,560
that we'll have to be responsible with

663
00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:36,179
what we do with

664
00:34:40,849 --> 00:34:40,020
um what we you know what we develop I

665
00:34:43,310 --> 00:34:40,859
was

666
00:34:47,149 --> 00:34:43,320
Amazed by some of the things I learned

667
00:34:49,129 --> 00:34:47,159
Paula and I went to the test side when

668
00:34:52,070 --> 00:34:49,139
it was open you know they opened it

669
00:34:55,849 --> 00:34:52,080
twice a year and I highly recommend

670
00:34:58,670 --> 00:34:55,859
going there because you you you get it I

671
00:35:02,750 --> 00:34:58,680
mean you you get the scale of things you

672
00:35:04,010 --> 00:35:02,760
get you know an instant lesson in in

673
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:04,020
modern history

674
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:06,720
that there is a little brochure that

675
00:35:11,930 --> 00:35:09,839
they they they sell which is so now I'm

676
00:35:13,010 --> 00:35:11,940
able to share about the history of the

677
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:13,020
site

678
00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:15,359
when they did that explosion which was

679
00:35:18,410 --> 00:35:16,560
not a test

680
00:35:22,190 --> 00:35:18,420
I mean it's a test in the sense that

681
00:35:25,069 --> 00:35:22,200
they hadn't done it before but a test in

682
00:35:28,849 --> 00:35:25,079
physics you know is you you you you take

683
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:28,859
a a small glass or something and you put

684
00:35:33,410 --> 00:35:30,960
something in it and you you wash your

685
00:35:36,170 --> 00:35:33,420
reaction and if the reaction works then

686
00:35:38,329 --> 00:35:36,180
you do it at a larger scale and then you

687
00:35:41,450 --> 00:35:38,339
get a patent and so on

688
00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:41,460
um this there was no way to to test the

689
00:35:45,410 --> 00:35:44,280
ball rather than blow up a full-scale

690
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:45,420
ball

691
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:48,720
they realized when they looked at the

692
00:35:53,870 --> 00:35:51,359
the destruction of a radioactivity in

693
00:35:56,270 --> 00:35:53,880
New Mexico which they could see

694
00:36:00,010 --> 00:35:56,280
pretty much right away

695
00:36:03,530 --> 00:36:00,020
that radioactivity isn't the main

696
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:03,540
purpose of having the bomb the the main

697
00:36:08,569 --> 00:36:06,480
purpose of having the bomb is to is a

698
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:08,579
very very high millions of degrees of

699
00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:12,720
heat and wind that will destroy innate

700
00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:16,260
construction or any you know and the

701
00:36:22,970 --> 00:36:18,780
fact that it leaves a radioactive Trace

702
00:36:24,650 --> 00:36:22,980
is is a secondary thing of course it's

703
00:36:28,010 --> 00:36:24,660
going to destroy life

704
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:28,020
but that's not that's not really the

705
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:29,520
point I mean at that point you've

706
00:36:33,290 --> 00:36:31,920
destroyed what you wanted to destroy on

707
00:36:34,970 --> 00:36:33,300
their landscape

708
00:36:37,490 --> 00:36:34,980
so

709
00:36:41,450 --> 00:36:37,500
that and I don't think the Japanese know

710
00:36:43,310 --> 00:36:41,460
that but the two bones that were taken

711
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:43,320
by the Enola Gay

712
00:36:49,069 --> 00:36:46,880
and the other airplanes over to Japan

713
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:49,079
were reset

714
00:36:56,510 --> 00:36:52,320
so that they did not explode at ground

715
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:56,520
level as they did in New Mexico

716
00:37:01,250 --> 00:36:59,760
they blew up the bulbs at 2 000 feet in

717
00:37:08,450 --> 00:37:01,260
the air

718
00:37:12,530 --> 00:37:08,460
that the the the radioactivity would be

719
00:37:14,569 --> 00:37:12,540
minimized at at the ground level

720
00:37:17,870 --> 00:37:14,579
and again I don't think the Japanese

721
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:17,880
know it the

722
00:37:22,609 --> 00:37:20,400
all the all those things I mean you have

723
00:37:26,030 --> 00:37:22,619
to go into details when you do that kind

724
00:37:28,910 --> 00:37:26,040
of Investigation it's taken us you know

725
00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:28,920
in okay so in my case four years for

726
00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:32,400
power last seven years and we're still

727
00:37:36,609 --> 00:37:34,160
finding

728
00:37:40,329 --> 00:37:36,619
details about

729
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:40,339
artifacts about special

730
00:37:45,950 --> 00:37:44,640
things that were retrieved from the

731
00:37:49,010 --> 00:37:45,960
avocado

732
00:37:52,190 --> 00:37:49,020
we still find witnesses who came in

733
00:37:53,569 --> 00:37:52,200
later and remembered what conditions

734
00:37:58,010 --> 00:37:53,579
were there

735
00:37:59,290 --> 00:37:58,020
and so I think we're emerging with quite

736
00:38:52,630 --> 00:37:59,300
a

737
00:38:56,810 --> 00:38:52,640
um

738
00:39:00,530 --> 00:38:56,820
the you know an officer went to the home

739
00:39:04,190 --> 00:39:00,540
of Mr Padilla's father fausteno Padilla

740
00:39:08,089 --> 00:39:04,200
who owned the ranch uh was operating the

741
00:39:08,990 --> 00:39:08,099
ranch and uh told him that um speaking

742
00:39:12,829 --> 00:39:09,000
Spanish

743
00:39:16,990 --> 00:39:12,839
we're going to need to cut your fence to

744
00:39:22,130 --> 00:39:19,490
why do you need to I mean I have a

745
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:22,140
perfect good date for the cattle trucks

746
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:24,720
you know the camera goes in and out and

747
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:27,359
you can use that

748
00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:31,440
um the the army guy says no uh we're

749
00:39:37,250 --> 00:39:34,800
going to have to bring a big truck and

750
00:39:40,970 --> 00:39:37,260
Mr Padilla described to me the track

751
00:39:43,609 --> 00:39:40,980
they brought was one of those huge army

752
00:39:46,130 --> 00:39:43,619
trucks that can carry two tanks

753
00:39:48,530 --> 00:39:46,140
um what they call a lowboy which is a

754
00:39:51,790 --> 00:39:48,540
platform they can lower behind the

755
00:39:54,890 --> 00:39:51,800
tractor of you know of the truck

756
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:54,900
that that track was in arms and they

757
00:39:59,329 --> 00:39:57,359
kept I've seen where they kept the gate

758
00:40:04,550 --> 00:39:59,339
uh

759
00:40:07,010 --> 00:40:04,560
there was a large thing and then they

760
00:40:09,770 --> 00:40:07,020
had to build a road all the way to where

761
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:09,780
the object was and they had to bring a

762
00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:12,960
crane to lift it and put it on the

763
00:40:18,050 --> 00:40:16,020
lowboy and and drive away with it so

764
00:40:18,890 --> 00:40:18,060
that was quite an operation it took 10

765
00:40:21,589 --> 00:40:18,900
days

766
00:40:25,130 --> 00:40:21,599
and we've reconstructed what happened

767
00:40:27,710 --> 00:40:25,140
you know each one of those 10 days

768
00:40:30,410 --> 00:40:27,720
the the research in the book is is

769
00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:30,420
fantastic it's thorough it's detailed

770
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:32,220
and like you say there are many examples

771
00:40:36,650 --> 00:40:35,040
that are very very well explained and I

772
00:40:38,810 --> 00:40:36,660
want to read a quote from Christopher

773
00:40:40,849 --> 00:40:38,820
melon who many folks will know as the

774
00:40:43,550 --> 00:40:40,859
former deputy assistant secretary of

775
00:40:46,190 --> 00:40:43,560
defense for the United States he called

776
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:46,200
the data within the book fresh reason to

777
00:40:49,730 --> 00:40:47,760
believe that our government is

778
00:40:51,950 --> 00:40:49,740
concealing physical proof of alien

779
00:40:54,349 --> 00:40:51,960
technology read the book and if

780
00:40:57,710 --> 00:40:54,359
persuaded join the millions of Americans

781
00:41:00,589 --> 00:40:57,720
seeking a straight answer Jack I I want

782
00:41:03,109 --> 00:41:00,599
to know what do you hope this release of

783
00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:03,119
the second edition of the book adds to

784
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:05,880
the overall UFO conversation

785
00:41:11,089 --> 00:41:07,920
so

786
00:41:14,690 --> 00:41:11,099
um you know I'm basically an information

787
00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:14,700
Scientist by training uh although we're

788
00:41:20,030 --> 00:41:17,640
asked 20 years or so I've been investing

789
00:41:21,890 --> 00:41:20,040
in technical in high technology

790
00:41:22,569 --> 00:41:21,900
companies

791
00:41:26,089 --> 00:41:22,579
um

792
00:41:28,970 --> 00:41:26,099
the over the years I've compiled a

793
00:41:33,770 --> 00:41:28,980
number of databases looking for the best

794
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:33,780
cases but also looking for models of you

795
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:36,720
know not just one case at a time but

796
00:41:44,210 --> 00:41:40,560
looking for models of

797
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:44,220
um behavior of of the different types of

798
00:41:51,790 --> 00:41:49,040
craft essentially and applying AI to

799
00:41:55,849 --> 00:41:51,800
that mass of data

800
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:55,859
as part of the atip program or the bass

801
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:01,040
program the Bigelow Aerospace program

802
00:42:10,010 --> 00:42:05,760
I I was in charge of building the the

803
00:42:12,650 --> 00:42:10,020
database that has now gone on to other

804
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:12,660
sites and as you may know the project is

805
00:42:17,530 --> 00:42:14,940
still classified or include the results

806
00:42:19,810 --> 00:42:17,540
of the project are still classified

807
00:42:24,010 --> 00:42:19,820
there are

808
00:42:29,150 --> 00:42:24,020
you know certainly the the Trinity case

809
00:42:33,470 --> 00:42:29,160
and two other cases emerge as the best

810
00:42:36,170 --> 00:42:33,480
source of information we have about the

811
00:42:41,390 --> 00:42:36,180
craft themselves the mechanics and the

812
00:42:43,790 --> 00:42:41,400
physics and and all of that and here you

813
00:42:46,310 --> 00:42:43,800
know we ended up building the data

814
00:42:50,569 --> 00:42:46,320
warehouse it was really a series of

815
00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:50,579
databases we ended up with 240 000 cases

816
00:42:54,829 --> 00:42:52,740
from all over the world

817
00:42:57,770 --> 00:42:54,839
one thing that worries me about what's

818
00:43:01,250 --> 00:42:57,780
going on now as far as I can tell what's

819
00:43:04,370 --> 00:43:01,260
going on now uh after Congressional

820
00:43:06,650 --> 00:43:04,380
review and what the Pentagon is doing is

821
00:43:09,890 --> 00:43:06,660
that they are focusing entirely on

822
00:43:12,349 --> 00:43:09,900
Military cases now military cases are

823
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:12,359
very good because the military has

824
00:43:18,349 --> 00:43:14,720
sensors and you know

825
00:43:20,990 --> 00:43:18,359
special cameras and radar and so on but

826
00:43:24,829 --> 00:43:21,000
it's only less than 10 percent of the

827
00:43:27,710 --> 00:43:24,839
database the other 90 percent of farmers

828
00:43:30,770 --> 00:43:27,720
in their field and you know people

829
00:43:34,490 --> 00:43:30,780
fishing and people and kids running

830
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:34,500
around in the countryside who see things

831
00:43:40,370 --> 00:43:38,400
for a long time that puzzle them and we

832
00:43:44,089 --> 00:43:40,380
get a lot of data from that

833
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:44,099
so I'm I'm worried about the fact that

834
00:43:49,329 --> 00:43:47,520
we're going to rush too quickly based on

835
00:43:53,089 --> 00:43:49,339
the few cases

836
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,099
the Nimitz cases extraordinary okay it's

837
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:55,280
extraordinary because it happens over

838
00:44:02,569 --> 00:43:58,800
you know a number of ships that are full

839
00:44:05,390 --> 00:44:02,579
of electronics and designed to to track

840
00:44:09,050 --> 00:44:05,400
things uh over the ocean and all the way

841
00:44:12,170 --> 00:44:09,060
to space so uh with very Advanced Radars

842
00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:12,180
and very Advanced cameras very events

843
00:44:17,950 --> 00:44:15,060
infrared and pilots who are highly

844
00:44:21,530 --> 00:44:17,960
trained and you know and and

845
00:44:24,349 --> 00:44:21,540
extraordinary planes so you would think

846
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,359
that those cases would be even better

847
00:44:29,210 --> 00:44:26,640
than what we have with Trinity in terms

848
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:29,220
of finding out what the technology is

849
00:44:32,990 --> 00:44:30,720
but

850
00:44:35,809 --> 00:44:33,000
again that's one case

851
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:35,819
as good as it is and it's under the

852
00:44:41,150 --> 00:44:38,240
constraints of the military which means

853
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:41,160
much of the data is still secret we

854
00:44:45,890 --> 00:44:43,680
haven't had access to it remember in the

855
00:44:47,569 --> 00:44:45,900
case of the Nimitz it was a plane that

856
00:44:50,809 --> 00:44:47,579
landed on the deck

857
00:44:54,650 --> 00:44:50,819
two guys came out spoke to them you know

858
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:54,660
to the commanding group

859
00:45:00,109 --> 00:44:57,599
took the data from The Radars and flew

860
00:45:02,809 --> 00:45:00,119
off we don't know who they were okay we

861
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:02,819
don't know where they went okay so we

862
00:45:08,030 --> 00:45:05,760
can speculate based on the data which is

863
00:45:10,790 --> 00:45:08,040
very good from the pilots you know and

864
00:45:13,370 --> 00:45:10,800
and to some extent from the radar people

865
00:45:14,329 --> 00:45:13,380
who can describe what they saw on their

866
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:14,339
screen

867
00:45:19,730 --> 00:45:17,040
but that's not the way you do physics

868
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:19,740
okay and in physics you don't want to

869
00:45:23,690 --> 00:45:22,079
work on half of the problem you want to

870
00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:23,700
have the whole problem

871
00:45:27,250 --> 00:45:25,680
so

872
00:45:30,650 --> 00:45:27,260
um

873
00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:30,660
my you know my training is to look at

874
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:33,660
patterns of things not just one thing at

875
00:45:36,109 --> 00:45:34,560
a time

876
00:45:39,050 --> 00:45:36,119
there are people who are much better

877
00:45:41,630 --> 00:45:39,060
than I am at looking at one case at a

878
00:45:43,309 --> 00:45:41,640
time doing the investigation getting the

879
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:43,319
science data

880
00:45:51,050 --> 00:45:47,280
there are three cases that are going to

881
00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:51,060
in great detail in Trinity

882
00:45:57,050 --> 00:45:54,240
there is the the case we've just talked

883
00:45:59,089 --> 00:45:57,060
about that at the test side

884
00:46:02,809 --> 00:45:59,099
what about Socorro

885
00:46:03,950 --> 00:46:02,819
Socorro is eight miles due north of this

886
00:46:08,150 --> 00:46:03,960
case

887
00:46:11,809 --> 00:46:08,160
in Socorro 1964 Lonnie Zamora and our

888
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:11,819
highway patrolman from New Mexico sees

889
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:15,119
an object that um firstly thinks there

890
00:46:21,650 --> 00:46:18,240
is an explosion so he drives into the

891
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:21,660
desert which I've done and it's uh the

892
00:46:26,470 --> 00:46:23,280
conditions haven't changed very much

893
00:46:31,130 --> 00:46:26,480
it's still pretty rough terrain

894
00:46:34,849 --> 00:46:31,140
and he comes out uh in front of an

895
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:34,859
object that has landed in a gully with

896
00:46:41,390 --> 00:46:37,680
an extraordinary landing gear

897
00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:41,400
that's adaptable to the terrain which is

898
00:46:44,829 --> 00:46:43,040
not flat

899
00:46:48,650 --> 00:46:44,839
and

900
00:46:51,530 --> 00:46:48,660
there are two creatures there the object

901
00:46:53,809 --> 00:46:51,540
is over

902
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:53,819
pretty much like the one in Trinity it's

903
00:46:58,010 --> 00:46:55,440
a little bit smaller

904
00:47:00,589 --> 00:46:58,020
there are two creatures there that match

905
00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:00,599
the description of the creatures a

906
00:47:07,130 --> 00:47:03,359
trinity the creatures at Trinity were

907
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:07,140
about the size of the kids the kids go

908
00:47:11,109 --> 00:47:10,079
up to thinking that they are going to

909
00:47:15,550 --> 00:47:11,119
help

910
00:47:18,650 --> 00:47:15,560
a crew that has crashed on their land

911
00:47:22,430 --> 00:47:18,660
they quickly they get to 200 feet

912
00:47:24,890 --> 00:47:22,440
then they realize these are not quite

913
00:47:27,530 --> 00:47:24,900
humid they are certainly not you know

914
00:47:32,569 --> 00:47:27,540
what they expected not Pilots

915
00:47:35,809 --> 00:47:32,579
uh they move around in a strange way and

916
00:47:37,450 --> 00:47:35,819
the the kids are afraid and remain

917
00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:37,460
Frozen there

918
00:47:46,210 --> 00:47:41,760
the the case in Socorro the the two

919
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:46,220
entities you know there are humanoid

920
00:47:51,470 --> 00:47:49,200
they are just like at Trinity they

921
00:47:54,109 --> 00:47:51,480
breathe the air

922
00:47:56,990 --> 00:47:54,119
you know we don't expect an alien to

923
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:57,000
come from Andromeda and breathe the air

924
00:48:01,490 --> 00:47:59,520
I mean when we go to the Moon we're

925
00:48:03,530 --> 00:48:01,500
going to have the breathing equipment

926
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:03,540
when we go to Mars we're going to have

927
00:48:09,230 --> 00:48:06,000
breathing equipment we're going to walk

928
00:48:13,130 --> 00:48:09,240
in a particular way so I'm adapted to

929
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:13,140
the gravity when I have all this gear

930
00:48:20,930 --> 00:48:16,640
um in there the you know the two

931
00:48:24,309 --> 00:48:20,940
humanoids are looking at Zamora

932
00:48:26,930 --> 00:48:24,319
um they there is apparently some sort of

933
00:48:28,190 --> 00:48:26,940
communication psychic on that with with

934
00:48:31,370 --> 00:48:28,200
him

935
00:48:34,730 --> 00:48:31,380
they get back into the object somehow

936
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:34,740
the object has makes a lot of noise it

937
00:48:40,790 --> 00:48:37,440
lifts off the ground stops making any

938
00:48:43,450 --> 00:48:40,800
noise and then moves away

939
00:48:46,490 --> 00:48:43,460
in in the book in Trinity

940
00:48:48,890 --> 00:48:46,500
at the time I was working with Dr heinek

941
00:48:51,710 --> 00:48:48,900
as you know Dr heinek was sent to

942
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:51,720
investigate Socorro by the Air Force

943
00:48:58,609 --> 00:48:55,440
Under Project Blue Book we were a group

944
00:49:01,069 --> 00:48:58,619
of us at Northwestern University and the

945
00:49:03,290 --> 00:49:01,079
University of Chicago were very

946
00:49:05,390 --> 00:49:03,300
interested in the case we were in

947
00:49:07,970 --> 00:49:05,400
communication with him and when he

948
00:49:11,589 --> 00:49:07,980
brought the data he had we we formed the

949
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:11,599
group to study the data so I I know the

950
00:49:17,930 --> 00:49:15,359
data from Socorro very well

951
00:49:20,030 --> 00:49:17,940
um we don't really understand our

952
00:49:23,150 --> 00:49:20,040
propulsion system of that object there

953
00:49:26,030 --> 00:49:23,160
were a lot of speculations again it was

954
00:49:30,650 --> 00:49:26,040
smaller than the one at Trinity and it

955
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:30,660
went off and there is one case in my

956
00:49:36,290 --> 00:49:33,599
book that in my book with Paola there

957
00:49:39,650 --> 00:49:36,300
had never been reported before as the

958
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:39,660
object flew off it it flew off towards

959
00:49:49,790 --> 00:49:43,920
the mountains and it actually a military

960
00:49:51,890 --> 00:49:49,800
car was stopped working was Frozen as

961
00:49:55,250 --> 00:49:51,900
the object became very bright over the

962
00:49:57,230 --> 00:49:55,260
cup that was reported by you know an

963
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:57,240
officer that case hadn't been published

964
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:00,240
before so we know a lot we we know

965
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,119
Socorro wasn't a joke wasn't a hoax it

966
00:50:06,349 --> 00:50:05,280
wasn't the balloon we know it was we

967
00:50:09,170 --> 00:50:06,359
know the weight

968
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:09,180
and in both cases we end up with a

969
00:50:15,050 --> 00:50:12,000
weight of several tons the Socorro it

970
00:50:18,050 --> 00:50:15,060
was you know about five tons based on

971
00:50:18,970 --> 00:50:18,060
the imprints that were left so Coral was

972
00:50:22,490 --> 00:50:18,980
not

973
00:50:24,410 --> 00:50:22,500
investigated by a UFO group or an

974
00:50:26,589 --> 00:50:24,420
amateur group although amateur groups

975
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:26,599
are you have done a very good job of

976
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:29,520
documenting traces and so on but here

977
00:50:34,609 --> 00:50:32,160
there was the state police there was the

978
00:50:37,010 --> 00:50:34,619
FBI that was in town they had no

979
00:50:39,650 --> 00:50:37,020
jurisdiction there but they helped

980
00:50:42,370 --> 00:50:39,660
secure the traces so we know the traces

981
00:50:46,490 --> 00:50:42,380
very well they photographed the traces

982
00:50:49,609 --> 00:50:46,500
uh Dr heineck saw the the evidence

983
00:50:52,849 --> 00:50:49,619
around the site there was no question

984
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:52,859
there was a very a heavy abstract that

985
00:50:59,210 --> 00:50:55,040
landed there in the desert

986
00:51:04,670 --> 00:50:59,220
the third case is in France

987
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:04,680
August 1st 1965 a year after Socorro

988
00:51:10,670 --> 00:51:07,680
the farmer that I've met I've gone to

989
00:51:14,270 --> 00:51:10,680
this that site and I've met several of

990
00:51:16,130 --> 00:51:14,280
the the people involved over a number of

991
00:51:19,549 --> 00:51:16,140
days

992
00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:19,559
um they uh I didn't go there at the time

993
00:51:29,809 --> 00:51:24,319
I went there you know about 15 years ago

994
00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:29,819
they uh he saw an again an oval object

995
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:32,400
there is no disc in any of that there is

996
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:36,240
no Flying Saucer in in this book he saw

997
00:51:43,609 --> 00:51:39,599
an object that had landed in the field

998
00:51:46,250 --> 00:51:43,619
again Socorro and Valencia I'm not

999
00:51:50,930 --> 00:51:46,260
crashes they are controlled Landings

1000
00:51:53,650 --> 00:51:50,940
very sophisticated controlled Landings

1001
00:51:56,809 --> 00:51:53,660
um there are two

1002
00:51:59,569 --> 00:51:56,819
humanoids in front they breathe our air

1003
00:52:03,049 --> 00:51:59,579
they have two eyes they have small nose

1004
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:03,059
small mouth just like what the witness

1005
00:52:10,670 --> 00:52:05,760
is a trinity of this crime

1006
00:52:11,870 --> 00:52:10,680
remember in the 64 65 nobody had heard

1007
00:52:15,290 --> 00:52:11,880
about Trinity

1008
00:52:18,370 --> 00:52:15,300
you know Trinity only came out about 10

1009
00:52:20,990 --> 00:52:18,380
years ago 10 12 years ago

1010
00:52:22,970 --> 00:52:21,000
all that time it had been inside that

1011
00:52:25,790 --> 00:52:22,980
Witnesses had been inside

1012
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:25,800
so we have three cases that match the

1013
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:29,119
case in valencal the the witness was

1014
00:52:35,630 --> 00:52:32,160
highly regarded it was a businessman and

1015
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:35,640
a farmer he immediately after the case

1016
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:40,800
went to the the police the police called

1017
00:52:46,490 --> 00:52:43,920
the Air Force the Army went there the

1018
00:52:49,250 --> 00:52:46,500
Customs people went there and there was

1019
00:52:51,470 --> 00:52:49,260
uh you know it was investigated by five

1020
00:52:55,069 --> 00:52:51,480
different agencies of the French

1021
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:55,079
government all looking for a common

1022
00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:57,359
explanation you know some sort of

1023
00:53:02,569 --> 00:52:59,760
advanced helicopter that came from

1024
00:53:06,410 --> 00:53:02,579
somewhere and all of them concluded that

1025
00:53:09,290 --> 00:53:06,420
the case was on identify after extensive

1026
00:53:13,730 --> 00:53:09,300
investigation interviews of the

1027
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:13,740
witnesses and so on so we we're dealing

1028
00:53:19,849 --> 00:53:16,559
not just with one case but we're dealing

1029
00:53:23,270 --> 00:53:19,859
with a pattern of very sophisticated

1030
00:53:25,010 --> 00:53:23,280
observations of similar objects and

1031
00:53:27,490 --> 00:53:25,020
similar creatures

1032
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:27,500
similar traces

1033
00:53:31,390 --> 00:53:30,240
you know both in the United States and

1034
00:53:35,770 --> 00:53:31,400
in Europe

1035
00:53:38,870 --> 00:53:35,780
that's what I would like to present to

1036
00:53:41,569 --> 00:53:38,880
scientists you know with like people to

1037
00:53:44,270 --> 00:53:41,579
look at that combination of factors and

1038
00:53:48,170 --> 00:53:44,280
stop really

1039
00:53:52,430 --> 00:53:48,180
uh thinking about it in system terms

1040
00:53:55,790 --> 00:53:52,440
so the the reason I'm here in Paris is

1041
00:53:59,690 --> 00:53:55,800
that the the the French

1042
00:54:02,809 --> 00:53:59,700
space agency has a group that has been

1043
00:54:06,230 --> 00:54:02,819
studying UFOs officially with an

1044
00:54:08,089 --> 00:54:06,240
official budget for 40 years which has

1045
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:08,099
never happened in the United States I

1046
00:54:16,130 --> 00:54:11,760
mean NASA has never wanted to look at it

1047
00:54:19,609 --> 00:54:16,140
um the uh they have a database which is

1048
00:54:24,290 --> 00:54:19,619
public there's the the space agencies of

1049
00:54:27,410 --> 00:54:24,300
Civilian agency it's not although in our

1050
00:54:31,010 --> 00:54:27,420
Advisory Group for the agency they are

1051
00:54:34,010 --> 00:54:31,020
representatives of the the Army the

1052
00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:34,020
French intelligence and uh the French

1053
00:54:39,290 --> 00:54:36,780
Air Force as well as the weather bureau

1054
00:54:41,230 --> 00:54:39,300
as well as the number of sociologists

1055
00:54:44,510 --> 00:54:41,240
and and

1056
00:54:47,150 --> 00:54:44,520
psychologists and so on so it's it's

1057
00:54:50,710 --> 00:54:47,160
it's it's a good group it's a group that

1058
00:54:54,710 --> 00:54:50,720
has a lot of a lot of years

1059
00:54:58,549 --> 00:54:54,720
studying cases primarily in France which

1060
00:55:01,549 --> 00:54:58,559
is the only jurisdiction but that's the

1061
00:55:04,130 --> 00:55:01,559
group that had studied well in Seoul and

1062
00:55:06,710 --> 00:55:04,140
there is an international meeting in two

1063
00:55:10,069 --> 00:55:06,720
weeks and I'm going to in Toulouse

1064
00:55:14,290 --> 00:55:10,079
Toulouse is the you know the main Center

1065
00:55:16,930 --> 00:55:14,300
for French space research

1066
00:55:21,170 --> 00:55:16,940
both Airbus

1067
00:55:24,829 --> 00:55:21,180
space the space part of Airbus and the

1068
00:55:29,569 --> 00:55:24,839
French space agency have headquarters

1069
00:55:30,970 --> 00:55:29,579
there and all the scientific labs are

1070
00:55:34,450 --> 00:55:30,980
there

1071
00:55:38,030 --> 00:55:34,460
and six countries are coming

1072
00:55:40,490 --> 00:55:38,040
including Germany in the UK

1073
00:55:44,510 --> 00:55:40,500
um Holland Italian Spain

1074
00:55:46,549 --> 00:55:44,520
and there will be comparing notes about

1075
00:55:49,130 --> 00:55:46,559
you know the

1076
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:49,140
current cases around the world for two

1077
00:55:53,569 --> 00:55:50,480
full days

1078
00:55:56,210 --> 00:55:53,579
this is not public it's a closed meeting

1079
00:55:57,490 --> 00:55:56,220
but the the proceedings will be

1080
00:56:01,549 --> 00:55:57,500
published

1081
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:01,559
in in time after they are edited I'm

1082
00:56:07,370 --> 00:56:03,359
making a presentation there about

1083
00:56:14,030 --> 00:56:10,609
I would love to ask how do we how do we

1084
00:56:16,490 --> 00:56:14,040
progress is it meetings of scientists

1085
00:56:19,130 --> 00:56:16,500
and investigators like yourself pushing

1086
00:56:21,530 --> 00:56:19,140
this subject forward you mentioned the

1087
00:56:24,470 --> 00:56:21,540
the Nimitz case for example is Rich with

1088
00:56:26,990 --> 00:56:24,480
data and electronic sensors and

1089
00:56:29,150 --> 00:56:27,000
equipment and probably very clear video

1090
00:56:30,349 --> 00:56:29,160
and photographs that we haven't yet seen

1091
00:56:34,010 --> 00:56:30,359
publicly

1092
00:56:36,650 --> 00:56:34,020
and then we have cases that are 60 to 80

1093
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:36,660
years old like Trinity or the you know

1094
00:56:40,670 --> 00:56:38,400
Sirocco case

1095
00:56:42,829 --> 00:56:40,680
where does that middle ground is it

1096
00:56:45,650 --> 00:56:42,839
public or private groups like yourselves

1097
00:56:49,490 --> 00:56:45,660
like the Galileo project that can really

1098
00:56:53,870 --> 00:56:51,230
um I think

1099
00:56:57,170 --> 00:56:53,880
um you know I'm I'm happy to have lived

1100
00:57:01,010 --> 00:56:57,180
long enough you can see my white hair to

1101
00:57:02,290 --> 00:57:01,020
to see the day when uh the subject is at

1102
00:57:05,150 --> 00:57:02,300
least

1103
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:05,160
acknowledged officially

1104
00:57:11,809 --> 00:57:08,160
you know by both the intelligence

1105
00:57:16,030 --> 00:57:11,819
Community by Harvard you know University

1106
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:16,040
by NASA no I mean we'll have a

1107
00:57:20,930 --> 00:57:19,200
spokesperson from NASA at our meeting at

1108
00:57:23,349 --> 00:57:20,940
in Toulouse

1109
00:57:27,049 --> 00:57:23,359
um you know addressing

1110
00:57:31,309 --> 00:57:27,059
by video but addressing the the

1111
00:57:34,370 --> 00:57:31,319
scientists there so this is when Dr

1112
00:57:37,329 --> 00:57:34,380
heinek was hoping to see you know what

1113
00:57:39,770 --> 00:57:37,339
what Dr McDonald was hoping to see

1114
00:57:42,530 --> 00:57:39,780
eventually that the subject would be

1115
00:57:45,950 --> 00:57:42,540
open would be that the ridicule would be

1116
00:57:51,170 --> 00:57:45,960
removed okay from it and that it would

1117
00:57:54,109 --> 00:57:51,180
be okay for scientists to study UFOs

1118
00:57:59,089 --> 00:57:54,119
either on their own time or as I've I've

1119
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:59,099
done or in a and you know funded as part

1120
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:00,720
of a funded project

1121
00:58:06,890 --> 00:58:03,119
the Galileo is a funded project

1122
00:58:08,990 --> 00:58:06,900
fortunately but it's funded privately we

1123
00:58:10,790 --> 00:58:09,000
should get to the point where you know

1124
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:10,800
we could write a proposal to the

1125
00:58:16,250 --> 00:58:13,680
National Science Foundation to study at

1126
00:58:18,530 --> 00:58:16,260
least with civilian cases there is a

1127
00:58:23,329 --> 00:58:18,540
case to be made for

1128
00:58:25,250 --> 00:58:23,339
a classified study to go on and people

1129
00:58:28,970 --> 00:58:25,260
you know many people in the field

1130
00:58:30,829 --> 00:58:28,980
disagree with me on that and they say uh

1131
00:58:33,410 --> 00:58:30,839
you know let let

1132
00:58:36,289 --> 00:58:33,420
everything be open

1133
00:58:38,990 --> 00:58:36,299
um well you know the the database to

1134
00:58:41,990 --> 00:58:39,000
which I contributed

1135
00:58:45,470 --> 00:58:42,000
um this was you know a big part of uh

1136
00:58:50,750 --> 00:58:45,480
the the budget that was spent uh under

1137
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:50,760
the Mass atip project

1138
00:58:56,089 --> 00:58:54,240
um there were I probably shouldn't tell

1139
00:58:57,890 --> 00:58:56,099
you how many people were involved but it

1140
00:59:01,670 --> 00:58:57,900
was you know a significant group

1141
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:01,680
including translators of Spanish French

1142
00:59:11,030 --> 00:59:05,599
Italian Russian and so on

1143
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:11,040
to have a a complete data warehouse all

1144
00:59:17,569 --> 00:59:13,920
in English with a fairly sophisticated

1145
00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:17,579
structure on which we could build the AI

1146
00:59:24,109 --> 00:59:20,640
component the project was stopped before

1147
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:24,119
we could get to that which is a period

1148
00:59:29,809 --> 00:59:26,880
but there are other you know talented

1149
00:59:33,230 --> 00:59:29,819
people in computer science we can pick

1150
00:59:37,069 --> 00:59:33,240
it up and they're classified again under

1151
00:59:40,490 --> 00:59:37,079
classification and move it forward the

1152
00:59:42,829 --> 00:59:40,500
reason not to disclose it today I mean

1153
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:42,839
some of the data in it came from

1154
00:59:48,349 --> 00:59:45,599
civilian sources and it's known came

1155
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:48,359
from you from it came from things like

1156
00:59:53,530 --> 00:59:51,839
that from the french fries

1157
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:53,540
when it's open

1158
00:59:58,990 --> 00:59:56,880
anybody can look at it anybody can do

1159
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:59,000
what we did essentially

1160
01:00:04,010 --> 01:00:01,200
except that the structure is somewhat

1161
01:00:07,069 --> 01:00:04,020
sophisticated in anticipation of doing

1162
01:00:11,930 --> 01:00:07,079
AI but there are a number of cases in

1163
01:00:14,950 --> 01:00:11,940
our medical cases that the those cannot

1164
01:00:18,170 --> 01:00:14,960
be should not be

1165
01:00:21,650 --> 01:00:18,180
Declassified until they are sanitized

1166
01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:21,660
until the nicer protection of the of the

1167
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:23,280
witnesses protection of the people

1168
01:00:30,530 --> 01:00:26,400
who've been injured and so on and there

1169
01:00:32,770 --> 01:00:30,540
is a surprising number of cases where we

1170
01:00:35,950 --> 01:00:32,780
have biological data

1171
01:00:42,370 --> 01:00:35,960
either in the form of uh

1172
01:00:45,109 --> 01:00:42,380
just uh you know a superficial

1173
01:00:48,670 --> 01:00:45,119
effects or in the case of injuries

1174
01:00:52,150 --> 01:00:48,680
including cases of death

1175
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:52,160
uh although not uh

1176
01:01:00,230 --> 01:00:56,400
not directly in military encounters but

1177
01:01:01,510 --> 01:01:00,240
people who died as a result of exposure

1178
01:01:04,609 --> 01:01:01,520
to something

1179
01:01:08,809 --> 01:01:04,619
that may have been accidental well not

1180
01:01:10,309 --> 01:01:08,819
necessarily you know directed energy and

1181
01:01:12,289 --> 01:01:10,319
directed at them

1182
01:01:14,510 --> 01:01:12,299
although

1183
01:01:18,589 --> 01:01:14,520
you know that part of the research

1184
01:01:21,289 --> 01:01:18,599
hasn't been completed my hope is you

1185
01:01:23,870 --> 01:01:21,299
know the project was terminated fairly

1186
01:01:26,270 --> 01:01:23,880
arbitrarily after two years it was

1187
01:01:28,970 --> 01:01:26,280
designed to go go on another three years

1188
01:01:32,170 --> 01:01:28,980
if it had gone another three years we

1189
01:01:35,569 --> 01:01:32,180
would have built the the AI component

1190
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:35,579
completely now I've used AI in my own

1191
01:01:43,609 --> 01:01:38,480
work uh you know there is a

1192
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:43,619
misunderstanding about ai ai is a very

1193
01:01:46,030 --> 01:01:44,850
um

1194
01:01:49,370 --> 01:01:46,040
[Music]

1195
01:01:52,730 --> 01:01:49,380
it's easy to talk about AI now and it's

1196
01:01:55,010 --> 01:01:52,740
very popular and very mysterious AI

1197
01:01:58,670 --> 01:01:55,020
shouldn't be mysterious I mean AI comes

1198
01:02:01,329 --> 01:01:58,680
in a number of number of of types of

1199
01:02:04,730 --> 01:02:01,339
things you know my

1200
01:02:08,690 --> 01:02:04,740
doctorate dissertation was about

1201
01:02:12,650 --> 01:02:08,700
building an AI program for Stellar

1202
01:02:17,329 --> 01:02:12,660
astronomy to facilitate studies of the

1203
01:02:19,089 --> 01:02:17,339
stars and uh you know my professors told

1204
01:02:22,309 --> 01:02:19,099
me it couldn't be done

1205
01:02:25,190 --> 01:02:22,319
I wanted to the system to answer English

1206
01:02:27,349 --> 01:02:25,200
questions about stars that come out with

1207
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:27,359
numerical answers that was the first

1208
01:02:34,670 --> 01:02:31,200
time it was done but it was done as a

1209
01:02:37,250 --> 01:02:34,680
helper to an astronomer so that an

1210
01:02:39,410 --> 01:02:37,260
astronomer didn't have to write a

1211
01:02:42,049 --> 01:02:39,420
program every time go run the program

1212
01:02:44,690 --> 01:02:42,059
which in those days would take 24 hours

1213
01:02:47,030 --> 01:02:44,700
to get the results here you could tell

1214
01:02:49,390 --> 01:02:47,040
the question in English and you'd get an

1215
01:02:53,450 --> 01:02:49,400
instant answer like

1216
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:53,460
15.6 percent okay so

1217
01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:56,640
um that was in 1968

1218
01:03:03,470 --> 01:02:59,760
okay 1968.

1219
01:03:06,130 --> 01:03:03,480
so since then there have been two more

1220
01:03:08,930 --> 01:03:06,140
levels of AI development

1221
01:03:11,030 --> 01:03:08,940
now we know we can do that and we know

1222
01:03:14,990 --> 01:03:11,040
we can do a lot more

1223
01:03:18,109 --> 01:03:15,000
but the the AI the the new AI system I

1224
01:03:23,569 --> 01:03:18,119
wrote in the 80s was just to help me

1225
01:03:26,230 --> 01:03:23,579
sift through all the UFO reports

1226
01:03:29,930 --> 01:03:26,240
fairly quickly so that I wouldn't forget

1227
01:03:32,930 --> 01:03:29,940
a particular pattern that might have

1228
01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:32,940
explained the data again much of the

1229
01:03:37,150 --> 01:03:35,760
data can be explained okay and it's

1230
01:03:40,970 --> 01:03:37,160
still true today

1231
01:03:45,410 --> 01:03:40,980
so the the first thing we have to do is

1232
01:03:49,970 --> 01:03:45,420
to concentrate on you know take the 260

1233
01:03:51,170 --> 01:03:49,980
000 cases we we have so far we can get

1234
01:03:53,390 --> 01:03:51,180
much more

1235
01:03:56,750 --> 01:03:53,400
but what's the point of getting much

1236
01:04:00,349 --> 01:03:56,760
more if it's jump so we we know that out

1237
01:04:03,530 --> 01:04:00,359
of that maybe only 10 percent is really

1238
01:04:06,109 --> 01:04:03,540
the stuff we should turn over to the

1239
01:04:09,109 --> 01:04:06,119
labs to the physicists to the chemists

1240
01:04:13,370 --> 01:04:09,119
to the astronomers and so on so the AI

1241
01:04:16,490 --> 01:04:13,380
should be helping us along the way to

1242
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:16,500
narrow it down to those cases that are

1243
01:04:20,930 --> 01:04:18,480
truly unexplained

1244
01:04:26,270 --> 01:04:20,940
not necessarily unexplainable but

1245
01:04:30,890 --> 01:04:26,280
unexplained so far and you know that I I

1246
01:04:33,710 --> 01:04:30,900
what I built in 1985 was pretty good it

1247
01:04:34,809 --> 01:04:33,720
would go over something like 40 or 50

1248
01:04:37,370 --> 01:04:34,819
different

1249
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:37,380
hypotheses for which the pattern was

1250
01:04:42,109 --> 01:04:38,160
known

1251
01:04:45,289 --> 01:04:42,119
that I could apply to the cases I had

1252
01:04:48,109 --> 01:04:45,299
then the program would engage in a

1253
01:04:49,549 --> 01:04:48,119
dialogue with me that was like have you

1254
01:04:51,890 --> 01:04:49,559
thought of this have you thought of that

1255
01:04:52,789 --> 01:04:51,900
have you thought of that third thing it

1256
01:04:54,589 --> 01:04:52,799
could be

1257
01:04:57,349 --> 01:04:54,599
so that

1258
01:05:00,049 --> 01:04:57,359
um you know the human mind makes up a

1259
01:05:02,390 --> 01:05:00,059
hypothesis and then all you see is that

1260
01:05:05,870 --> 01:05:02,400
hypothesis but there may be something

1261
01:05:08,270 --> 01:05:05,880
else going on that has happened in other

1262
01:05:11,150 --> 01:05:08,280
cases that you forgot

1263
01:05:13,730 --> 01:05:11,160
the system is going to forget it and it

1264
01:05:17,569 --> 01:05:13,740
it wasn't a big program you know it

1265
01:05:21,289 --> 01:05:17,579
wasn't uh very sophisticated but it

1266
01:05:24,410 --> 01:05:21,299
remembered every single explanation we

1267
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:24,420
had found so far in other cases

1268
01:05:33,289 --> 01:05:28,559
and and then it wouldn't forget it so

1269
01:05:35,510 --> 01:05:33,299
again we should demystify AI you know I

1270
01:05:38,809 --> 01:05:35,520
see people talking about AI is going to

1271
01:05:41,470 --> 01:05:38,819
be this magical thing that you know we

1272
01:05:45,530 --> 01:05:41,480
we shouldn't apply a lot of

1273
01:05:49,250 --> 01:05:45,540
sophisticated AI to that data until

1274
01:05:52,549 --> 01:05:49,260
we've cleaned it up and you know I can

1275
01:05:55,150 --> 01:05:52,559
tell you without violating any you know

1276
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:55,160
any secrecy or any clearance

1277
01:06:00,829 --> 01:05:58,319
we didn't get to the point where we

1278
01:06:02,990 --> 01:06:00,839
could clean it up the way we wanted to

1279
01:06:03,890 --> 01:06:03,000
clean it up because we only had two

1280
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:03,900
years

1281
01:06:11,210 --> 01:06:07,440
so if there is something to do out there

1282
01:06:13,910 --> 01:06:11,220
is to review the data very carefully and

1283
01:06:17,569 --> 01:06:13,920
uh you know work on it to the point

1284
01:06:20,089 --> 01:06:17,579
where it could be presented to

1285
01:06:22,849 --> 01:06:20,099
um the different scientific disciplines

1286
01:06:25,609 --> 01:06:22,859
for study is there anything right now

1287
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:25,619
you are working on other than the the

1288
01:06:29,750 --> 01:06:28,079
French Space Agency Group and you'd like

1289
01:06:33,170 --> 01:06:29,760
to let the listeners know about well you

1290
01:06:33,849 --> 01:06:33,180
know most of my work is in in the US

1291
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:33,859
um

1292
01:06:41,329 --> 01:06:37,760
I'm familiar with the French fines

1293
01:06:46,069 --> 01:06:41,339
uh and with you know the European fights

1294
01:06:50,029 --> 01:06:46,079
uh there there is a big decision that

1295
01:06:52,670 --> 01:06:50,039
will have to be made in in the US and at

1296
01:06:56,450 --> 01:06:52,680
the at the Congressional hearings

1297
01:07:00,470 --> 01:06:56,460
uh I heard two different things from you

1298
01:07:03,589 --> 01:07:00,480
know uh two of the uh representatives

1299
01:07:05,870 --> 01:07:03,599
and uh people who are there from

1300
01:07:09,410 --> 01:07:05,880
Congress

1301
01:07:11,710 --> 01:07:09,420
um I I heard this is so important that

1302
01:07:16,130 --> 01:07:11,720
now it should be

1303
01:07:18,710 --> 01:07:16,140
it should be you know probably continue

1304
01:07:22,010 --> 01:07:18,720
to be classified it should be traded

1305
01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:22,020
with a high priority without because it

1306
01:07:28,190 --> 01:07:24,000
could give the United States an

1307
01:07:32,770 --> 01:07:28,200
advantage in technology which is true

1308
01:07:36,490 --> 01:07:32,780
I also heard you know one one of the

1309
01:07:39,410 --> 01:07:36,500
Congress congressmen say

1310
01:07:43,250 --> 01:07:39,420
you know a lot of the data was gathered

1311
01:07:45,650 --> 01:07:43,260
outside the United States we should we

1312
01:07:49,190 --> 01:07:45,660
should open the doors and the windows

1313
01:07:51,529 --> 01:07:49,200
and and have some sort of global which

1314
01:07:53,569 --> 01:07:51,539
we know how to do I mean you know we've

1315
01:07:56,750 --> 01:07:53,579
been talking to the Russians about

1316
01:07:59,930 --> 01:07:56,760
nuclear war you know for the last 70

1317
01:08:02,750 --> 01:07:59,940
years now that doesn't mean that we tell

1318
01:08:06,289 --> 01:08:02,760
them our secrets and they so they don't

1319
01:08:08,930 --> 01:08:06,299
tell us their secrets but we don't at

1320
01:08:12,230 --> 01:08:08,940
some level we don't need the sequence we

1321
01:08:14,750 --> 01:08:12,240
we can talk about you know what it what

1322
01:08:17,930 --> 01:08:14,760
it all means because this happens all

1323
01:08:20,450 --> 01:08:17,940
over the world the U.S you know the the

1324
01:08:23,570 --> 01:08:20,460
part of the us that's

1325
01:08:27,050 --> 01:08:23,580
um where there are people able to watch

1326
01:08:29,269 --> 01:08:27,060
the sky is two percent of the planet

1327
01:08:30,890 --> 01:08:29,279
you know what about the other 98 percent

1328
01:08:33,169 --> 01:08:30,900
wouldn't you want to know what's going

1329
01:08:36,590 --> 01:08:33,179
on there well lots of things are going

1330
01:08:39,370 --> 01:08:36,600
on there and people are intimidated by

1331
01:08:42,229 --> 01:08:39,380
the US so they don't want to look silly

1332
01:08:45,169 --> 01:08:42,239
especially if there are tenured

1333
01:08:48,650 --> 01:08:45,179
professors at the University somewhere

1334
01:08:50,870 --> 01:08:48,660
and they know of a particular case that

1335
01:08:54,050 --> 01:08:50,880
the U.S should know about but they're

1336
01:08:56,930 --> 01:08:54,060
not going to tell the U.S because they

1337
01:09:01,550 --> 01:08:56,940
don't want to be laughed at you know on

1338
01:09:04,970 --> 01:09:01,560
on NBC News okay so that

1339
01:09:08,030 --> 01:09:04,980
has prevented all these years I have

1340
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:08,040
been one of a few people who sort of was

1341
01:09:11,390 --> 01:09:09,600
had access to

1342
01:09:16,010 --> 01:09:11,400
you know had friends in both and

1343
01:09:17,650 --> 01:09:16,020
colleagues in in both situations

1344
01:09:23,209 --> 01:09:17,660
um

1345
01:09:27,530 --> 01:09:23,219
the there is a point where I would argue

1346
01:09:29,510 --> 01:09:27,540
that we need to be more open and we we

1347
01:09:33,169 --> 01:09:29,520
need to have whether it's under the U.N

1348
01:09:34,610 --> 01:09:33,179
or under some other group that has a

1349
01:09:39,410 --> 01:09:34,620
proper structure

1350
01:09:41,689 --> 01:09:39,420
you know uh we need we need to talk we

1351
01:09:45,050 --> 01:09:41,699
really need to talk

1352
01:09:48,110 --> 01:09:45,060
um I recognize also I mean I had you

1353
01:09:51,530 --> 01:09:48,120
know all of us had the right clearances

1354
01:09:54,590 --> 01:09:51,540
under the atip program I I no longer

1355
01:09:56,570 --> 01:09:54,600
have that clearance but obviously you

1356
01:09:58,850 --> 01:09:56,580
know I'm still subject to the same

1357
01:10:00,830 --> 01:09:58,860
regulations

1358
01:10:02,689 --> 01:10:00,840
um the people with clearances are not

1359
01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:02,699
going to violate their clearances when

1360
01:10:07,990 --> 01:10:05,520
they talk to you know the Germans or the

1361
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:08,000
Spaniards but

1362
01:10:15,050 --> 01:10:11,600
the data itself a lot of it comes from

1363
01:10:17,510 --> 01:10:15,060
civilian population somewhere is in the

1364
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:17,520
books that have already been published

1365
01:10:24,770 --> 01:10:20,880
so why don't we look at this as

1366
01:10:27,470 --> 01:10:24,780
scientists you know as Dr Longwood

1367
01:10:31,149 --> 01:10:27,480
Harvard has started to do you know and

1368
01:10:34,250 --> 01:10:31,159
and begin to look at the phenomena as

1369
01:10:35,689 --> 01:10:34,260
massive something that has the massive

1370
01:10:38,810 --> 01:10:35,699
impact on us

1371
01:10:42,950 --> 01:10:38,820
snow on the planet and and on on the

1372
01:10:45,290 --> 01:10:42,960
population and you know do it with the

1373
01:10:48,830 --> 01:10:45,300
techniques we have already

1374
01:10:51,530 --> 01:10:48,840
that have never been applied to

1375
01:10:53,209 --> 01:10:51,540
what's stopping us

1376
01:10:56,209 --> 01:10:53,219
so that's my

1377
01:10:59,270 --> 01:10:56,219
you know the the I mean that's what I

1378
01:11:01,310 --> 01:10:59,280
emerged with uh you know and I've been

1379
01:11:04,310 --> 01:11:01,320
working we have a small group at

1380
01:11:08,090 --> 01:11:04,320
Stanford you know around Dr Nolan and

1381
01:11:11,390 --> 01:11:08,100
I've I've turned over to Dr Nolan all

1382
01:11:12,890 --> 01:11:11,400
the the trace material I had from

1383
01:11:14,810 --> 01:11:12,900
different countries including from

1384
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:14,820
France and

1385
01:11:21,770 --> 01:11:18,239
um you know we've published one paper uh

1386
01:11:26,510 --> 01:11:21,780
already uh on describing the technology

1387
01:11:29,990 --> 01:11:26,520
the methodology of analysis and we're

1388
01:11:31,149 --> 01:11:30,000
going to publish more and

1389
01:11:35,270 --> 01:11:31,159
um

1390
01:11:37,790 --> 01:11:35,280
that's the way science works

1391
01:11:39,770 --> 01:11:37,800
well Jacques thank you so much for your

1392
01:11:41,450 --> 01:11:39,780
time uh thank you very much for coming

1393
01:11:42,770 --> 01:11:41,460
on you've been very gracious very

1394
01:11:44,570 --> 01:11:42,780
generous

1395
01:11:46,189 --> 01:11:44,580
um and I'll hold you to that and we'd

1396
01:11:47,870 --> 01:11:46,199
love to get you back on to answer some

1397
01:11:49,790 --> 01:11:47,880
of those listener questions in the near

1398
01:11:52,430 --> 01:11:49,800
future but thank you for all the work

1399
01:11:55,250 --> 01:11:52,440
you've done and continue to do

1400
01:11:57,229 --> 01:11:55,260
um at your at your pleasure sir Folks at

1401
01:11:59,270 --> 01:11:57,239
the start of this year I got a bit of a

1402
01:12:01,189 --> 01:11:59,280
health scare and it kick-started me to

1403
01:12:03,890 --> 01:12:01,199
getting fitter healthier and generally

1404
01:12:06,110 --> 01:12:03,900
looking after myself better a healthier

1405
01:12:08,930 --> 01:12:06,120
breakfast was high on my priority list

1406
01:12:10,729 --> 01:12:08,940
and it should be for you too magic spoon

1407
01:12:13,010 --> 01:12:10,739
is the perfect way to get in your

1408
01:12:14,510 --> 01:12:13,020
morning protein eating cereal that

1409
01:12:16,729 --> 01:12:14,520
tastes like it did when you were a kid

1410
01:12:18,770 --> 01:12:16,739
without all the bad stuff I can promise

1411
01:12:21,050 --> 01:12:18,780
you there is nothing unidentified in

1412
01:12:23,810 --> 01:12:21,060
this cereal the variety pack has four

1413
01:12:26,390 --> 01:12:23,820
flavors including cocoa fruity frosted

1414
01:12:29,390 --> 01:12:26,400
and peanut butter this pack has zero

1415
01:12:32,270 --> 01:12:29,400
grams of sugar 13 to 14 grams of protein

1416
01:12:35,149 --> 01:12:32,280
and only four knit grams of carbs that

1417
01:12:38,149 --> 01:12:35,159
are only 140 calories per serving it's

1418
01:12:40,669 --> 01:12:38,159
keto friendly gluten-free grain free soy

1419
01:12:42,530 --> 01:12:40,679
free and low carb it's delicious but

1420
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:42,540
super healthy cereal that really brings

1421
01:12:47,050 --> 01:12:44,880
joy to your mornings afternoons or

1422
01:12:50,270 --> 01:12:47,060
actually any time of day go to

1423
01:12:52,729 --> 01:12:50,280
magicspoon.com forward slash that UFO to

1424
01:12:55,430 --> 01:12:52,739
grab a variety pack and try it today be

1425
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:55,440
sure to use our promo code that UFO at

1426
01:13:00,530 --> 01:12:57,840
checkout to save five dollars off your

1427
01:13:02,290 --> 01:13:00,540
order Magic spoon is so confident in

1428
01:13:05,510 --> 01:13:02,300
their product it's backed with a 100

1429
01:13:07,189 --> 01:13:05,520
happiness guarantee so if for any reason

1430
01:13:10,010 --> 01:13:07,199
you don't like it they'll refund your

1431
01:13:11,990 --> 01:13:10,020
money no questions asked remember to get

1432
01:13:15,350 --> 01:13:12,000
your delicious bowl of guilt-free cereal

1433
01:13:18,350 --> 01:13:15,360
at magicspoon.com forward slash that UFO

1434
01:13:20,570 --> 01:13:18,360
and use that code that UFO to save five

1435
01:13:23,270 --> 01:13:20,580
dollars off thank you magicspoon for

1436
01:13:25,189 --> 01:13:23,280
sponsoring this episode that is all for

1437
01:13:27,229 --> 01:13:25,199
this week's show thank you very much for

1438
01:13:29,450 --> 01:13:27,239
listening please remember to leave the

1439
01:13:32,750 --> 01:13:29,460
podcast a review on your chosen platform

1440
01:13:34,669 --> 01:13:32,760
you can like retweet And subscribe that

1441
01:13:36,830 --> 01:13:34,679
would all be very much appreciated the

1442
01:13:38,750 --> 01:13:36,840
shows are being uploaded on YouTube as

1443
01:13:41,330 --> 01:13:38,760
we speak more and more you can sign up

1444
01:13:43,490 --> 01:13:41,340
at patreon.com forward slash that UFO

1445
01:13:45,410 --> 01:13:43,500
podcast to access it shows ad free as

1446
01:13:48,530 --> 01:13:45,420
well please get in touch on Twitter

1447
01:13:52,490 --> 01:13:48,540
Facebook Instagram that UFO podcast of

1448
01:13:54,410 --> 01:13:52,500
course on Twitter it's at UFO uapam and

1449
01:14:00,709 --> 01:13:54,420
again folks as always keep looking up

1450
01:14:00,719 --> 01:14:24,240
me

1451
01:14:32,709 --> 01:14:31,490
[Music]

1452
01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:32,719
into the game

1453
01:15:21,370 --> 01:15:08,010
[Music]

1454
01:15:27,790 --> 01:15:22,660
over there

1455
01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:35,740
[Music]

1456
01:16:15,720 --> 01:15:57,110
what's that is saucer

1457
01:16:43,149 --> 01:16:37,690
[Music]

1458
01:16:51,550 --> 01:16:44,700
thank you

1459
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:56,350
very much